Tuesday, May 24, 2005

Cooler Heads Prevail On The "Nuclear Option"

It's about time some centrists got together and bucked the leadership on something. I'm getting tired of the all or nothing attitudes of some people. Yes, I know some people on both sides, conservatives especially I imagine, will be upset that there was a compromise made. You should be careful what you wish for. I think your centrist brethren saved you a few seats in the next Congress. The people we should all be thanking are the following:

Robert Byrd (West Virginia)
Daniel Inouye (Hawaii)
Mary Landrieu (Louisiana)
Joseph Lieberman (Connecticut)
Ben Nelson (Nebraska)
Mark Pryor (Arkansas)
Ken Salazar (Colorado)

Lincoln Chafee (Rhode Island)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Mike DeWine (Ohio)
Lindsey Graham (South Carolina)
John McCain (Arizona)
John Warner (Virginia)
Olympia Snowe (Maine)

Oh and by the way the Republican establishment is so stupid for not wanting McCain to get the Republican nomination. He's the best you've got, and he would beat Hillary easily if that's what you're really concerned about.


Devo said...

Personally, Erik, I agree with you on McCain, but I think the megaright has a problem with that. First off, I know a few furious vets who consider him a "traitor" for some reason. They think he's almost as bad as "Hanoi Jane". Which I think is absurd, especially given a touch of historical context, but that's something very difficult to imbue in anyone not already sensitive to it. Anyway, I'd probably even vote for "Warface" McCain (have you seen that dude's grill? Man, he looks like he's killed about a thousand Commies. He reminds me of Red Foreman, only more hardcore. What a badass.) over that slimeball Hillary. I'm pretty liberal, but she's just got weasel scrawled all over her forehead...

As for cooler heads... boy, do I wish there were a few more of THEM in congress.

Actually, I think I'd prefer more of them in the citizenry (and that goes just as much for wackjob liberals as it does for ignorant conservatives)... politicians are morons, always have been, always will be.

nicnerd said...

Two times this week I have agreed with Erik. I am gald that a compromise was reached. Ending filibusters is an entirely un-democratic endeavor brought about by narrow minded people thinking of the short term only. Of course, I wish that we had achieved an agreemtn to at least vote on all of the nominees, but this is what comrpomise is all about.

Regarding your views on McCain, the man is not electable. I don't have a problem with his view so much as his tactics. He operates like a maverick, which is fine in business, but not in politics. He does not carry enough sway within his own party to even think about being the nominee. Hillary is so polarizring I think almost any opponent could beat her. I really look forward to an election with her as the democratic nominee.

nicnerd said...

FYI, I think that you meant to say "nucular option"

Erik Grow said...

Yes devo, I tend to agree. I'm trying to find reasons why I should be happy with Hillary, but can't find many. Mark Warner in '08! Ah well.

Yes nicnerd, it's Newcuelar.

Devo said...

Heh, Erik, your subtle Simpsons reference is well placed, and well played.

I'm not familiar with Mark Warner tho. Fill me in, yo.

Erik Grow said...

Governor of Virginia, centrist Democrat, pro-business, quite popular even with Republicans in a fairly red state (my state, Virginia). His term is up this year, because in Virginia you can only have one consecutive term (might be the only state like that). Google him, you'll find more. His name has been mentioned, but he would still be considered a dark horse to an extent.

Erik Grow said...

Nicnerd, is a guy that votes with his party about 80%+ of the time a maverick? Is this what "headcount politics" has really become? He's conservative too, just less of a cultural warrior than you like.

Two Dogs said...

I actually agree that for the most part McCain is conservative, but the McCain-Feingold crap was really bad. And there are NO Centrists/Moderates on either list. McCain and Lieberman are the only two on your lists that are not Liberals.

Lincoln Chafee and Olympia Snowe are probably the most Liberal Senators other than a few moonbat Democrats. Damn.

Two Dogs said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Erik Grow said...

Ahhh...the truth comes out. You and nicnerd are birds of a feather. There are no such thing as moderates/centrists in your world, as I suspected. Nicnerd told me pretty much the same thing about the Republican Senators on that list at lunch today. That's funny!

Two Dogs said...

I really don't know that much about nicnerd, he seems to be a rational person in the debate. I actually think that the closest thing that we have to a moderate in the Senate would be John McCain and maybe Lieberman, but ol' Joe does come out on the smart side of alot of issues these days.

Erik, the Republican party houses Liberals, too. Almost all of the Northeast guys and gals are old school left-wingers. In the Democrat party, there doesn't seem to be many conservatives anymore.

nicnerd said...

It is not how Mr. McCain votes, it is how he panders to the press. Like many liberals he says one thing and does another (I did not have sexual relations with that woman). Ok so that is a stretch anaalogy. My point is that McCain talks a big gain, he likes to hear his name mentioned as a centrist and "breaking party lines", he enjoys playing the bringer of peace card. When it comes down to it, John McCain is plastic and lacks conviction. I dislike him for some of his views, but I despise him for his lack of commitment to said views. He is a Bill Clinton Republican.

Lincoln Chafee, Olympia Snowe, and Sue Collins are about as true to their party as Zel Miller is to the Democrats.

Joe Lieberman is a decent guy (are you shocked that I said that?) but he lacks the charisma needed for a leadership position. He has one virtue that I appreciate, he stands firm in his postions regardless of the popularity of his views.

I would differ with twodogs strongly on John Warner, Mr. Warner is NOT leftists by any stretch. He is the more conservative of the Virginia delegation, he is somewhat centrists socially because Virginia is not as solidly red as some GOP strongholds. Regardless, he is generally a stand up guy. I have actually met him many times as he and my dad know each other. Truth be told, I would not count Warner out of a Presidential run.

Erik Grow said...

Hm, I don't know of a situation where McCain has backtracked, but maybe you know of one.

Joe Lieberman is just a pro-war Democrat. It doesn't bother me. His core is still Democratic values.

You know Nicnerd, Cal Thomas on WTOP had a commentary this morning in which he lit into Warner for "caving in" or some crap. It's funny to listen to people like him go on about how they wanted to fight to the bitter end until they got everything that they wanted. That attitude is why so many people hate Congress now.

Devo said...

Hmm, I generally don't like getting involved in conversations as heated as this one seems (thus my refraining from entering the stem cell debate that just happened about a post ago) because I don't feel as if I'm quite as informed as most others come off as being. However, I am interested in this statement:

My point is that McCain talks a big gain, he likes to hear his name mentioned as a centrist and "breaking party lines", he enjoys playing the bringer of peace card.

If I remember correctly, our fair President played a very similar card when he claimed to be a "uniter, not a divider" upon first running for office. And now, five years later, the nation is STILL divided on whether he's a uniter or a divider. Doesn't sound too united to me. Compassionate Conservatism is another term he tosses around that makes no sense whatsoever. Erm... Sounds kinda like pandering to me. Clear Skies act? If THAT'S not an example of political doublespeak that "says one thing but does another", then you can just paint me green and call me Gumby. There will be NOTHING clear about any of our skies if it remains in effect.

A great many politicians, both "left" and "right", are little more than pandering blowhards so in love with the idea of their own power that they are willing to promise anything to anybody as long as it keeps them in office. This goes equally for Bill Clinton as it does for George Bush. The exceptions to the rule, the Liebermans and Bidens of the world, rarely get any popular support simply BECAUSE they refuse to pander.

Two Dogs said...

Paint me green and call me "Gumby". Funny as Hell. John McCain=Media Whore.

Devo said...

Two Dogs, I think I agree with you there. However, I also think I like McCain, from what his whorish media appearances have communicated to me. I'm not sure if media whoredom necessarily predicates a lack of political astuteness or conviction, but I certainly see how it can cause some brows to furrow in consternation. I like the Feingold thing he did, if only it was foolproof. Which it's obviously not. Both the Repubs and the Dems have found sneaky, underhanded ways around it. I dunno, I just wish honest politics was possible anymore.

We need a good Pappy O'Daniel candidate!!! One who uses popular music to gain office!!!!

Er, wait, hold on... who used Springsteen this past election? I forget.

Two Dogs said...

I do know that Springsteen shilled for Kerry. McCain-Feingold in my humble opinion is unconstitutional and stupid. And there is no way that McCain could ever win the Presidency unless he runs as a Democrat. I'm thinking that I want more of the Bush family, so Jeb will be my candidate. And this is not necessarily because I like W's politics, I just like that moonbat stuff where everything is Bush's fault. It is funny.

nicnerd said...

To respond to Devo...

Just in case it is not abundantly clear form my other posts. I am NOT a fan of Bush, never have been, never will be. It caused me immense pain to vote for his stupid, sorry ass. He is as plastic as they come (well, maybe Clinton is more phony). The only Republican I have loathed more than GW Bush is his father. The Bush family like the Kennedy family really should get out of politics, they have nothing meaningful to contribute.

So let us be crystal clear, I detest Bush. Unfortunately the Democrats ran the biggest nimrod possible against Mr. Bush. The nation had no choice.

Never, ever call me a Bush fan. The Gipper must be rolling in his grave at the antics of BIG Government Bush.

Devo said...

Heh... Uniter? Divider? Who knows? I agree with you on many of your appraisials, nicnerd. Family politics is just a bad deal. As is career politics. I think term limits should be as short as politically practical. Strom Thurmond was one of the worst things to happen to Congress in a hundred years (or FOR a hundred years)...

Moonbats and psychotic conservatives are equally to blame for the mess our country is in. And HAS been in for at least a half century. Cooler heads, as this post seems to invoke, rarely prevail on the issues that "matter". Like war. Or taxes. Or education. Or healthcare. Or unemployment. Or national security. Or civil liberties.

All of the above "issues" will continue to suffer grievously if either democrats or republicans are given free rein. We need a new Whig party, dammit.

nicnerd said...

Bull Moose

Devo said...

is that the Whig Party's mascot? Better than a donkey or an elephant, I guess. OK, I'm in!

nicnerd said...

Bull Moose was a politcal party, silly. Theodore Roosevelt's party.

Anyhow, Peggy Noonan wrote an interesting piece on the compromise. YOu can finde it here:


Mr. Narcissus Goes to Washington

It's springtime, love is in the air, and 14 senators are gazing at the mirror.

Lindsey Graham defied the biases of his constituency to do what was right, not what was easy. Robert Byrd put aside personal gain to save our Republic. David Pryor ignored the counsels of hate to stand firm for our hopes and dreams. Mike DeWine protected our way of life. These men are uniters, not dividers.

How do I know?

Because they told me. Again and again, and at great length, as they announced The Deal. And I believed them, because I am an idiot. Or as they might put it, your basic "folk" from "back home."